Latinos are not a monolith.

We often hear this phrase, especially when trying to understand the “Latino vote” during elections. The nearly 63 million Hispanics or Latinos in the U.S.—of which 36 million can vote—have consistently demonstrated this truth. In the 2020 election, Donald Trump garnered a greater portion of the Latino vote compared to 2016, and a recent report from Pew Research Center indicates that this trend is evolving.

So, despite Trump’s harmful anti-immigration statements and policies, why are some Latinos inclined to vote in ways that seem contrary to their community’s interests? What draws them toward far-right ideologies? How do tribalism, trauma, and traditional values factor into this, and why should we pay attention to this emerging group of voters?

These are among the inquiries that Emmy-award winning journalist Paola Ramos addresses in her book, “Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America” (Pantheon, pp. 256, available now).

As a contributor to Telemundo News and MSNBC, Ramos builds on her previous work “Finding Latin-X: In Search of the Voices Redefining Latino Identity,” to delve into how race, identity, and political trauma have spurred far-right sentiments among Latinos and how these perspectives are reshaping U.S. politics.

“My hope with ‘Defectors’ is to convey a simple message—that being Latino involves complexity,” she states. “As individuals, we have multifaceted, beautiful histories, yet they can be complicated.”

In writing her book, the VICE News reporter engaged with individuals like Gabriel Garcia, a first-generation Cuban American and former member of the Proud Boys who participated in the January 6th events. She also spoke with various others, including a Dominican hairdresser who has embraced anti-Black rhetoric, a Latino border vigilante from El Paso, Latina members of the conservative group Moms for Liberty advocating for legislation like “Don’t Say Gay,” and evangelical leaders.

“I hope this book sparks curiosity to better understand us—our history and our actions. Most importantly for Latinos reading it, I hope it prompts self-reflection and encourages difficult conversations that I believe both Republicans and Democrats need to engage in.”

This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Question: In writing ‘Defectors,’ you spoke with people holding extreme views that might negatively influence the Latino community. How do you respond to those who question the value of giving these individuals a voice?

Paola Ramos: I often face criticism for conversing with insurrectionists, members of Moms for Liberty, and those promoting violent anti-immigrant sentiments. However, understanding the factors driving the Latino shift toward Trumpism necessitates these dialogues. Intriguingly, these discussions reveal that the core issue transcends politics; it’s about each individual’s journey towards belonging in this country.

The quest for belonging often pushes some individuals towards Trumpism. Engaging in these discussions as a community is vital, as they often reveal that we all carry weight from our Latin American heritage—racial baggage, a colonial mindset, and political trauma. It is crucial to grasp this reality, and these tough conversations can help unveil it. I found that simply listening is essential. Gaining the trust of those I spoke with took time, but it is essential for unraveling the ‘why’ behind their beliefs. Trust is something that is severely fractured in the current political climate of our country.

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Did you ever feel unsafe during any of the interviews?

I never felt physically unsafe, but I often experienced discomfort. This was especially true in conservative spaces where I encountered individuals who fundamentally rejected my identity as a queer Latina. As a journalist, when I challenge prevailing power structures and beliefs, I can’t help but feel the weight of people’s discomfort toward me.

Whether I’m interviewing people like Enrique Tarrio from The Proud Boys or attending discussions in churches about their views on homosexuality, or even at the border alongside Mexican Americans who view immigrants negatively—I definitely feel that discomfort. It stems from a deep-seated aversion ingrained in some communities that dehumanizes various groups, including immigrants, queer individuals, trans people, and women. Naturally, I have experienced it.

In your book “Defectors,” you divide it into three parts: Tribalism, Traditionalism, and Trauma. How did you decide on these themes?

I sought to understand why some Latinos support ideas like mass deportation and the troubling rise of anti-Blackness in certain sectors. I also explored the phenomenon of Latino evangelicals emerging as many move away from faith. Moreover, I examined the growing anti-transgender sentiments among some Latinos.

To analyze this, I identified three core influences. Tribalism looks at our racial histories and internalized racism. Traditionalism delves into the centuries of colonization that shape our adherence to certain gender and sexual norms and how that leads to admiration for concepts like Christian nationalism. Lastly, trauma addresses how many Latinos gravitate towards authoritarian leadership, considering the roots of this inclination.

That’s how I framed my understanding. The most rewarding aspect of writing this book, beyond the on-the-ground reporting and interviews, was collaborating with historians, psychologists, and researchers who provided crucial insights.

Reflecting on your experiences reporting for “Defectors,” is there anyone or anything you now see differently?

Truly, everyone I interviewed shifted my perspective. Fear of those who seem very different is common, and I completely relate to that. Before speaking with individuals from groups like the Proud Boys or even Anthony Aguero at the border, I approached each encounter with a bunch of preconceived ideas and biases. I was always vigilant. However, in almost every case, I found that their online personas or the impressions I had of them didn’t match the reality revealed during our conversations.

Ultimately, I was interacting with people who were on a quest for belonging, which led them to be involved with these groups. I was pleasantly surprised by everyone’s capacity for empathy, as it became clear that a shared source of pain underlay their motivations.

Your discussions about pain resonate powerfully, especially illustrated by the Dominican hair salon owner who denies her Black identity when you inquire about her racial background.

In those instances, it’s tempting to label someone as simply a racist. Yet, the situation is more complex. Take the Afro-Latina hair salon owner—her rejection of identifying as Black isn’t merely a matter of racism. When she was asked about her race and stated “Hispanic,” this refusal reflects a painful history of colonization that has led individuals to align with their ties to Spanish colonizers rather than embracing their Black heritage. In Latin America, associating with the colonizers has often been more celebrated than being identified as Black.

This is the source of that pain, and it is essential for people to recognize it. In the United States.

Regarding the perception of race, many grapple with the notion of racial binaries that define individuals strictly as either Black or white. This limited viewpoint has unfortunately led to the criminalization of Black communities, particularly African Americans. As a result, some Afro-Latinas may choose to identify with whiteness while claiming their Hispanic heritage. This choice doesn’t stem from overt racism, but rather reflects a deeply-rooted internalized racism within society that influences our current circumstances.

Having reported on the presidential campaigns of former President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and considering the recent developments after President Joe Biden’s decision to step back from his reelection bid, what strategies do you believe the Democratic party should adopt to better engage Latino voters?

One crucial aspect that comes to mind is the need for some bravery. I mention this in light of Vice President Harris, who I believe has fallen into Republican traps regarding immigration. This trap suggests that to attract independent, conservative, and even some Democratic voters, one must adopt a more center-right stance on immigration. My hope is for leaders like her, especially when targeting Latino voters, to recognize that playing the long game is far more beneficial than seeking immediate short-term gains.

The long-term strategy involves acknowledging the existence of millions of undocumented individuals residing in the United States who have repeatedly been promised substantial immigration reform. These individuals often face dehumanization, attacks, and criminalization. My desire is for that same courage, the same courage that motivated many Latino voters to support Joe Biden in the 2020 election, to return. They believed that politicians would finally deliver comprehensive immigration reform, which required considerable courage at the time.

Your father, Jorge Ramos, has been a trusted news anchor at Univision for many years. What legacy do you hope long-time viewers will remember him by?

It’s been astonishing to witness the affection he has received, which is heartwarming and indicative of the type of trustworthy journalism he has practiced. Achieving such trust is incredibly difficult in today’s world. It’s remarkable to see how millions of Latinos have relied on him over the decades. As I reflect on the evolution of both Univision and its Latino audience during the 40 years my father has led the newscast, it’s clear he’s played a significant role in that growth.

I’ve gained vast knowledge from my father, and I believe he has also learned a thing or two from me. He has instilled critical values in me, the foremost being, ‘As a reporter and a journalist, you have the responsibility to hold those in power accountable.’ This principle is a core part of my identity. He has also taught me the importance of empathy: to gain someone’s trust and encourage openness during interviews, it’s essential to approach every conversation with understanding. Listening is another vital lesson I’ve embraced and carry with me in my journey.