It’s crucial to remember that Latinos are not a single, unified group.

This remindful concept consistently arises, especially when analyzing the “Latino vote” during elections. The 63 million Hispanics or Latinos residing in the U.S. (with 36 million eligible to vote) have long validated this understanding. In the 2020 election, Donald Trump secured a larger share of the Latino vote compared to 2016, and recent data from the Pew Research Center indicates that this trend continues to evolve.

Given Trump’s harsh stance on immigration and his policies on borders, what could entice Latinos to cast their votes in ways that may contradict their community’s interests? Why are some Latinos finding an affinity with far-right ideologies? What influence do tribalism, trauma, and traditional values have in this scenario, and why is it essential to pay attention to this expanding group of voters?

These inquiries are what Emmy-winning journalist Paola Ramos attempts to address in her book “Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America” (Pantheon, pp. 256, available now).

Ramos, a contributor to Telemundo News and MSNBC, continues from her earlier work “Finding Latin-X: In Search of the Voices Redefining Latino Identity,” delving into how factors like race, identity, and political trauma have sparked a far-right leaning among Latinos, thus affecting American politics.

“Through ‘Defectors,’ I aim for readers to grasp that being Latino entails complexity,” she explains. “Our individual stories – though beautiful – are often intricate and complicated.”

For her book, Ramos interviewed individuals with extreme perspectives, including Gabriel Garcia, a Cuban American who formerly aligned with the Proud Boys and was involved in the January 6 riots. She also conversed with various individuals, such as a Dominican hairdresser who has adopted anti-Black sentiments prevalent within the Latino community and voted for Trump; a Latino border patrol volunteer from El Paso; Latina participants in Moms for Liberty, a conservative group advocating for legislation like Florida’s “Don’t Say Gay” bill; and evangelical preachers engaged in cultural battles.

“I hope this book sparks curiosity to foster a better understanding of who we are and our history,” she states. “For Latinos reading this, it’s crucial we understand ourselves more to engage in the challenging discussions that both Republications and mainly Democrats need to have.”

This interview has been streamlined for brevity and clarity.

Question: In writing “Defectors,” you’ve spoken to individuals with extreme views that could harm the Latino community. What would your response be to those questioning the value of listening to them or providing them a platform?

Paola Ramos: I frequently face criticism for engaging in dialogues with insurrectionists, Moms for Liberty, and others expressing harmful anti-immigrant opinions. However, I believe we must understand the motivations behind the shift towards Trumpism. Ultimately, these discussions illuminate individual journeys toward finding belonging in this country.

The quest for belonging is increasingly guiding many towards Trumpism. It’s vital for our community to engage in these conversations, as they reveal what I emphasize in my book – that each of us, whether democrat, republican, or independent, carries a burden from Latin America, including racial trauma and the remnants of a colonized mindset. We all share that weight.

Attempting to grasp these complexities is essential, which is what these difficult discussions have prompted me to explore. The most compelling part is to actively listen to people; this practice of listening is crucial at this moment. Building trust is perhaps the toughest aspect of my job, as it often takes time for individuals to feel secure enough to share their stories. Gaining their trust is vital for analyzing the ‘why’ behind their beliefs, and fostering trust is a significant challenge in our current environment.

The effort to engage Latino voters is yielding positive results. Hispanics share their perspectives. Have you ever felt in danger during any of your interviews?

I never felt in danger, but I did experience discomfort on several occasions. Especially when entering more conservative environments, where I’m often confronted by individuals who fundamentally reject my identity as a queer Latina. As a reporter, challenging established power dynamics and people’s beliefs can create discomfort. Growing up with certain Latino cultural taboos has made me acutely aware of the discomfort I evoke in others with my identity.

Whether I’m interviewing Enrique Tarrio from The Proud Boys, discussing anti-gay sentiments with pastors in churches, or engaging with Mexican Americans at the border who view immigrants as criminals – that discomfort is always present. It reflects a pervasive sense of disgust embedded within some communities that dehumanizes various groups, including immigrants, queer individuals, transgender folks, and women. I have certainly felt that.

Your book “Defectors” is divided into three parts: Tribalism, Traditionalism, and Trauma. What led you to focus on these three themes?

When examining the broader picture, I aimed to understand why some Latinos are becoming more accepting of mass deportation. Why is anti-Black sentiment resonating among certain groups? We also see another faction of Latinos leaning towards evangelical beliefs. I questioned the rise of Latino evangelicals in a less religious environment, and why so many are aligning with anti-transgender movements.

Analyzing these trends, I identified three primary driving forces. Tribalism reflects the racial issues we face, including internalized racism and its origins. Traditionalism examines the impacts of centuries of colonization on our gender and sexual norms and how this leads to a fascination with ideas like Christian nationalism. Lastly, trauma considers how admiration for authoritarian governance finds its roots in our cultural experiences.

This framework helped me make sense of it all. A major highlight of writing the book was collaborating with historians, psychologists, and researchers to enrich my understanding.

Reflecting on your reporting for “Defectors,” did any particular interview or individual shift your viewpoint?

To be honest, every individual I interviewed left me with a shifted perspective. It’s common to feel apprehensive toward those who differ greatly from you, and I completely understand that. Before speaking with individuals from groups like The Proud Boys or Anthony Aguero at the border, I approached each interview with numerous biases and stereotypes. I was always on edge. Yet, in nearly every case, their online personas or the preconceived notions I held did not match the reality of their stories once we spoke.

What I discovered was that I was conversing with real people who were merely searching for acceptance, which led them to affiliate with these groups. I was taken aback by everyone’s capacity to recognize each other’s humanity, as fundamentally, they each carried their own pain.

The pain you describe in your book is evident in the case of the Dominican salon owner who distances herself from her Black identity.

In such moments, it’s easy to walk away from the interview and label her as racist. However, the reality is far more complex. When I asked her about her racial identity and she replied that she identified as Hispanic, it illustrates a painful history tied to colonization. Many individuals associated more closely with Spanish colonizers and rejected their Black identity due to the historical glorification of those connections over their African roots in Latin America.

This is where the underlying pain lies, and it’s crucial for people to grasp this context. In a society preoccupied with racial identity.

Racial divisions often categorize individuals as either Black or white, leading to the criminalization of Black individuals, especially African Americans. This situation can prompt some Afro-Latinas to embrace a perception of whiteness by identifying as Hispanic. This inclination isn’t necessarily born from racism, but rather stems from deeply rooted internalized racism that has influenced our circumstances today.

Having reported on the presidential campaigns of former President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and observing the recent developments following President Joe Biden’s decision not to seek reelection, what changes do you believe the Democratic Party should implement to encourage Latino voter turnout?

First off, I believe a bit of bravery is needed. Vice President Harris, in my view, seems to be conforming to Republican narratives regarding immigration. There’s a common belief that moving toward the center-right on immigration issues is necessary to attract independent and some conservative voters, even Democrats. My hope is for leaders like her, particularly those focused on the Latino electorate, to grasp that pursuing long-term goals in politics is more beneficial than chasing immediate, short-term gains.

The long-term perspective involves acknowledging the millions of undocumented individuals in this country, who have been repeatedly promised comprehensive immigration reform. These are the same individuals facing dehumanization, vilification, and criminalization. I wish for that same bravery that motivated many Latino voters to support Joe Biden in 2020—a belief that politicians would finally enact comprehensive immigration reform. That courage was significant then, and it is needed once more.

Your father, Jorge Ramos, has long been a leading news anchor for Univision, earning the trust of countless Latino viewers. What do you hope his longtime viewers remember about the legacy he is leaving behind?

It’s been truly heartwarming to witness the affection he has received, which not only warms the heart but also reflects the trust-based journalism he practiced—something that’s remarkably rare today. It’s amazing to see how he has gained the trust of millions of Latinos over many years, coinciding with the growth of both Univision and the Latino audience throughout his nearly 40 years as the anchor.

I’ve acquired a wealth of knowledge from my dad, and I believe he has also learned a few things from me. He has imparted valuable lessons, with the most important being, “You have the privilege of being a reporter, and your duty is to hold those in power accountable.” This principle has been a guiding force for me. Additionally, he has taught me the importance of empathy; to earn the trust of people and encourage them to speak, one must approach every interview with understanding and compassion. Finally, he has instilled in me the importance of listening, a lesson I carry with me everywhere.

(This story was corrected to address an earlier inaccuracy.)